Selling jackets won't solve climate change. But dismissing everyone who falls short of an impossible ideal leaves us with nothing but moral superiority.
the only real part of your piece that I disagree with are the overly kind words about me. other than that I agree with what you wrote. Patagonia has done a lot of good. they have supported good causes. They are incredibly good at playing into the guilt of affluent urbanites and capitalizing on that. I didn't write about it in the thing I wrote, but I was at Patagonia when they dont buy this jacket ad came out in the NYT. On the Monday after Black Friday, everyone was high fiving each other bragging about how it was the biggest sales weekend ever for the company specially in nyc. As someone who has spent the majority of my life in the outdoors and care deeply about them, I think it's very important to have conversations about whats actually happening.
Appreciate the comment, man. I think we're largely on the same page, if coming at it from slightly different angles. I heard a stat at some point (can't remember) that they've increased sales every time they've run a variation of that campaign, which feels entirely believable. Agree on the importance of conversations, there's often not enough depth or nuance in tackling more complicated topics these days.
a wiser man than me once told me: "perfect is the enemy of good". The world is full of greys, even when the trend of the days seems to be to polarize everything.
The piece you reference raises important points (rich boss acts like a dick, buying stuff ultimately sucks, American imperialism). But it was undermined by its own lack of self-awareness.
To continue the title metaphor, buddy's IG influencing helped convince hundreds of thousands of people to purchase the beer for the alcoholic.
I was hoping some emotional content around that situationship would be processed; instead I just come away with trend wave pump & dump vibes.
That Yvon can be an ass really can't be news to anyone, can it?
Whenever someone writes a hit piece on Patagonia, I just remember that they kick-started the organic cotton industry, worked with Polartex to develop a process for recycled fleece, and are trying to make regenerative agriculture a reality. This stuff is hard, and prone to failure. If they weren't doing it, it might not be happening at all.
They are a huge player in the advocacy space for American Public lands, too. The reality is this world we live in is not some schoolyard where boys and girls play nice. I liked Foster’s piece because I think it’s healthy to poke the bear and point out blinding contradictions.
This is a good & fair overview. Your comments about it is easy to bash the successful is so true. Textiles has been an easy victim for a while as so much of it falls into the desirable category as opposed to it being a necessity. One philosophy I do follow is that it is more important for a company to produce a profit that produce the best product. Without the company being here in 3 or 5 years to continue the educational journey for their users, then all their good work will be wasted. I know that the thinking is progressing all the while, so the best you can do (as there is still the endorphin hit of wanting to consume) is to have a Less Bad option...
Thanks for this writing. I can tell you, having worked during this same era at companies that were competitive with Patagonia, that you are absolutely correct. Patagonia and their, self declared, imperfect effort to be a better producer inspired every single company I worked with. Both reads were excellent, more companies should get down to the details here as you both have pointed out.
Agreed. Not perfect but more environmentally responsible than most manufacturers of outdoor gear that I am aware of. Need more B corporations in every industry.
I’m on board for a lot of this, but I also fear we’re not clear on the specifics of supply chains and factories. People decry Patagonia using the same factories as other brands…but that doesn’t say a lot. Supply chains can differ massively before anything reaches a factory, and many people still have an unsavoury opinion of factories in their heads. Now, some people perpetuate an idea that some factory owners show a sleek factory which doesn’t make the products; rather a shabby sweatshop down the road. I don’t buy that. People don’t have the money to operate 2 factories — one just for show the other for production.
The other thing I struggle with when people bash Patagonia is there’s no other brands that hires for roles like Director of Environmental Activism. No brand spends THAT much money and go to SUCH lengths just for marketing. It’s almost conspiracy level.
I’ve also written about some of Patagonia’s shortcomings, but when you look at everything they do, you simply cannot say it’s all marketing. I guess people can’t let go of basing a brand.
Just finished listening to the audiobook version of Abundance and it hits on some similar points about how much investment it takes to get from here to there. And governments are usually the funding catalysts for those shifts, but the funding does have to come from somewhere to build the tech and infrastructure for industries to change. so props to them for that.
I loved Huntington's piece. And I love this piece, equally. I feel like you both are sparking a conversation around outdoor marketing / being good stewards of the outdoors. Which those of us who have spent most of their lives hunting and fishing as well as working in the outdoors industry for more than two decades have experienced and can appreciate on a deep level.
This is how these discussions should be had. Point. Counterpoint. All for the betterment of being of more value to the outdoors we all hold so dear. Accountability is good. But so is acknowledging that there has been significant good done in the name of conservation while also being at odds with brand messaging and brand actuality.
Appreciate these reflections and mostly agree with your take. My sense is that there is a sweet spot between where you are and where Huntington’s essay lands. Agreed that a full takedown is unproductive and possibly harmful. At the same time, accepting flaws and imperfections and taking away the pedestal might also provide a slippery slope towards apathy. The middle ground feels to me as fertile soil for growing a movement in the right direction. Put the leaders on a pedestal and hold them to account especially when they don’t meet expectations, but don’t tear them down because you’re right, they are trying. I’d argue this discourse around Huntington’s essay is missing a big opportunity for thoughtful voices to pitch in ideas and avenues for Patagonia to improve in ways that bridge the gap between where they’ve whiffed. Magic wand time - if you were in charge of Patagonia how’d you be running things?! Totally naive, I get that, but rather than debate whether we should boycott or cut some slack, feels to me like some hive mind solutioneering would be the most productive and helpful response.
The world isn’t just fucked right, it always has been. It’s no worse now than before. In fact, on balance, it’s probably better. But that doesn’t comport with the doom contingent that seems to relish with maximum arrogance that we are spiraling like never before. BS.
I have written a few notes to Patagonia, notes that were critical and pointing to some of their hypocrisy. 1st off, the notion of their so called workwear line of garments is a bad joke. Tell me the last time you saw a tradesman wearing one of their overpriced hemp jackets or pants. Working folks can't afford Patagonia garments. Instead, the clothes are designed to appeal to wall street bros and other posers who never picked up a hammer or a wrench in their lives. The contradictions are embarrassing. I once saw an ad where a bunch of idiots on paddleboard on their way to an offshore oil platform to protest fossil fuels. Uh, what are those paddleboards made of? Not to mention the high tech garments worn by those urban warrior protesters. I never got an answer from Patagonia customer service. That said, I have many of their products and I love the quality, not to mention the generous return policy. I especially love their waders and other fly fishing gear. Just don't bullshit me, Patagonia.
the only real part of your piece that I disagree with are the overly kind words about me. other than that I agree with what you wrote. Patagonia has done a lot of good. they have supported good causes. They are incredibly good at playing into the guilt of affluent urbanites and capitalizing on that. I didn't write about it in the thing I wrote, but I was at Patagonia when they dont buy this jacket ad came out in the NYT. On the Monday after Black Friday, everyone was high fiving each other bragging about how it was the biggest sales weekend ever for the company specially in nyc. As someone who has spent the majority of my life in the outdoors and care deeply about them, I think it's very important to have conversations about whats actually happening.
Appreciate the comment, man. I think we're largely on the same page, if coming at it from slightly different angles. I heard a stat at some point (can't remember) that they've increased sales every time they've run a variation of that campaign, which feels entirely believable. Agree on the importance of conversations, there's often not enough depth or nuance in tackling more complicated topics these days.
a wiser man than me once told me: "perfect is the enemy of good". The world is full of greys, even when the trend of the days seems to be to polarize everything.
Thanks for a very well written article
The piece you reference raises important points (rich boss acts like a dick, buying stuff ultimately sucks, American imperialism). But it was undermined by its own lack of self-awareness.
To continue the title metaphor, buddy's IG influencing helped convince hundreds of thousands of people to purchase the beer for the alcoholic.
I was hoping some emotional content around that situationship would be processed; instead I just come away with trend wave pump & dump vibes.
That Yvon can be an ass really can't be news to anyone, can it?
Whenever someone writes a hit piece on Patagonia, I just remember that they kick-started the organic cotton industry, worked with Polartex to develop a process for recycled fleece, and are trying to make regenerative agriculture a reality. This stuff is hard, and prone to failure. If they weren't doing it, it might not be happening at all.
They are a huge player in the advocacy space for American Public lands, too. The reality is this world we live in is not some schoolyard where boys and girls play nice. I liked Foster’s piece because I think it’s healthy to poke the bear and point out blinding contradictions.
This is a good & fair overview. Your comments about it is easy to bash the successful is so true. Textiles has been an easy victim for a while as so much of it falls into the desirable category as opposed to it being a necessity. One philosophy I do follow is that it is more important for a company to produce a profit that produce the best product. Without the company being here in 3 or 5 years to continue the educational journey for their users, then all their good work will be wasted. I know that the thinking is progressing all the while, so the best you can do (as there is still the endorphin hit of wanting to consume) is to have a Less Bad option...
Thanks for this writing. I can tell you, having worked during this same era at companies that were competitive with Patagonia, that you are absolutely correct. Patagonia and their, self declared, imperfect effort to be a better producer inspired every single company I worked with. Both reads were excellent, more companies should get down to the details here as you both have pointed out.
Agreed. Not perfect but more environmentally responsible than most manufacturers of outdoor gear that I am aware of. Need more B corporations in every industry.
I’m on board for a lot of this, but I also fear we’re not clear on the specifics of supply chains and factories. People decry Patagonia using the same factories as other brands…but that doesn’t say a lot. Supply chains can differ massively before anything reaches a factory, and many people still have an unsavoury opinion of factories in their heads. Now, some people perpetuate an idea that some factory owners show a sleek factory which doesn’t make the products; rather a shabby sweatshop down the road. I don’t buy that. People don’t have the money to operate 2 factories — one just for show the other for production.
The other thing I struggle with when people bash Patagonia is there’s no other brands that hires for roles like Director of Environmental Activism. No brand spends THAT much money and go to SUCH lengths just for marketing. It’s almost conspiracy level.
I’ve also written about some of Patagonia’s shortcomings, but when you look at everything they do, you simply cannot say it’s all marketing. I guess people can’t let go of basing a brand.
Just finished listening to the audiobook version of Abundance and it hits on some similar points about how much investment it takes to get from here to there. And governments are usually the funding catalysts for those shifts, but the funding does have to come from somewhere to build the tech and infrastructure for industries to change. so props to them for that.
I loved Huntington's piece. And I love this piece, equally. I feel like you both are sparking a conversation around outdoor marketing / being good stewards of the outdoors. Which those of us who have spent most of their lives hunting and fishing as well as working in the outdoors industry for more than two decades have experienced and can appreciate on a deep level.
This is how these discussions should be had. Point. Counterpoint. All for the betterment of being of more value to the outdoors we all hold so dear. Accountability is good. But so is acknowledging that there has been significant good done in the name of conservation while also being at odds with brand messaging and brand actuality.
I enjoyed both pieces a lot. Thank you gentlemen.
Well put! A great side of the conversation, I appreciate seeing the discussion surrounding all this.
Nice piece Kyle
Appreciate these reflections and mostly agree with your take. My sense is that there is a sweet spot between where you are and where Huntington’s essay lands. Agreed that a full takedown is unproductive and possibly harmful. At the same time, accepting flaws and imperfections and taking away the pedestal might also provide a slippery slope towards apathy. The middle ground feels to me as fertile soil for growing a movement in the right direction. Put the leaders on a pedestal and hold them to account especially when they don’t meet expectations, but don’t tear them down because you’re right, they are trying. I’d argue this discourse around Huntington’s essay is missing a big opportunity for thoughtful voices to pitch in ideas and avenues for Patagonia to improve in ways that bridge the gap between where they’ve whiffed. Magic wand time - if you were in charge of Patagonia how’d you be running things?! Totally naive, I get that, but rather than debate whether we should boycott or cut some slack, feels to me like some hive mind solutioneering would be the most productive and helpful response.
The world isn’t just fucked right, it always has been. It’s no worse now than before. In fact, on balance, it’s probably better. But that doesn’t comport with the doom contingent that seems to relish with maximum arrogance that we are spiraling like never before. BS.
I have written a few notes to Patagonia, notes that were critical and pointing to some of their hypocrisy. 1st off, the notion of their so called workwear line of garments is a bad joke. Tell me the last time you saw a tradesman wearing one of their overpriced hemp jackets or pants. Working folks can't afford Patagonia garments. Instead, the clothes are designed to appeal to wall street bros and other posers who never picked up a hammer or a wrench in their lives. The contradictions are embarrassing. I once saw an ad where a bunch of idiots on paddleboard on their way to an offshore oil platform to protest fossil fuels. Uh, what are those paddleboards made of? Not to mention the high tech garments worn by those urban warrior protesters. I never got an answer from Patagonia customer service. That said, I have many of their products and I love the quality, not to mention the generous return policy. I especially love their waders and other fly fishing gear. Just don't bullshit me, Patagonia.